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tribaltextiles.info • View topic - Ge Jia embroidered blanket?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:10 pm 
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GejiaBlanketdet2w.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:40 am 
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Hi Pamela and Ann

that's a lovely embroidered blanket.

I have a baby carrier panel that includes the same motif, though of somewhat more recent vintage. I was told that it is Miao, and comes from Guizhou, Tai Jiang County, Ge Yi township. 贵州台江县革一

I think this is probably right because the designs, the tight embroidery running the same direction and the spacing of the forms is very similar to published examples of embroidery from Tai Jiang and nearby Huang Ping. The shape of my panel is also similar to published examples from this area.

Chris


Attachments:
File comment: baby carrier, minus the carrying straps
CET1-1t.jpg
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File comment: detail of central area
CET1detail1.jpg
CET1detail1.jpg [ 101.56 KiB | Viewed 24736 times ]
File comment: detail of the phoenix design
CET1detail2.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:49 am 
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Here is a published example of a similar baby carrier, from "Miao Textiles from China" by Gina Corrigan (University of Washington Press, Seattle and British Museum Press, 2001, ISBN 0-295-98137-7). The embroidered designs are different but I think this is similar enough in style and technique to make the connection with my baby carrier and hence with Ann's textile.


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File comment: detail of baby carrier
TaijiangBabyCarrierDetail.jpg
TaijiangBabyCarrierDetail.jpg [ 103.94 KiB | Viewed 24731 times ]
File comment: baby carrier from Tai Jiang county, Guizhou
TaijiangBabyCarrier.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:19 pm 
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File comment: Old Gejia baby carrier with pheonix pattern
Gejia baby carrier 1.1.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.1.jpg [ 71.48 KiB | Viewed 24682 times ]
File comment: detail
Gejia baby carrier 1.2.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.2.jpg [ 75.43 KiB | Viewed 24682 times ]
File comment: detail
Gejia baby carrier 1.3.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.3.jpg [ 73.48 KiB | Viewed 24682 times ]
File comment: detail of pheonix
Gejia baby carrier 1.4.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.4.jpg [ 75.18 KiB | Viewed 24681 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:22 pm 
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File comment: batik and embroidered ties from above baby carrier
Gejia baby carrier 1.5.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.5.jpg [ 62.02 KiB | Viewed 24675 times ]
Gejia baby carrier 1.6.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.6.jpg [ 62.78 KiB | Viewed 24675 times ]
File comment: embroidered end
Gejia baby carrier 1.7.jpg
Gejia baby carrier 1.7.jpg [ 70.07 KiB | Viewed 24675 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:27 am 
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 Post subject: Plural of phoenix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:36 am 
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Mmmm.... digressions :mrgreen:
Some have the plural of phoenix as phoenixes. However, my Jesuit schooling - will I ever forget amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant - would require the plural phoenices to remain true to its Latin origin (apologies to the ancient greeks whose φοῖνιξ (phoiniks) was subsumed by the feelings of Latin superiority .... although today phoiniks may possibly be found in some regional dialects :P ).
Latin aside there is the idea that there is only ever one phoenix (which in Western thought always took the masculine form in direct contradiction to the Eastern idea of the phoenix representing the female...) in existence at any one time thereby removing the need for a plural form hehe. The belief was that a new phoenix arose from the corpse of its male predecessor. The Greek historian, Herodotus, who recorded the mythical origin of the phoenix in his 'Histories' bluntly stated his disbelief in its existence. Thankfully the Miao were not influenced by him....


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:03 am 
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I like digressions too, and that one was wondrous, iain. truly a singular bird (ha!)

here is that silk textile. 17th-18thC, but late 19thC examples have the same features. Sometimes holds a twig, auspicious fruit or lingzhi fungus, as do cranes.


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File comment: 17th-18thC Chinese silk, detail
silkphoenix.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Chris, Andrew

Thanks very much indeed for turning this into a very nice thread indeed! A phoenix (only one, of course, Iain) indeed! Yes, those tail feathers are visually arresting and stick in one's mind. I love them in the old Chinese silk

Quite given me some joy and I am sure that Ann will be interested in all that has come forth, sorry, risen up!

Best,

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:40 pm 
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DongTaijiangw.jpg
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DongTiajiangdetw.jpg
DongTiajiangdetw.jpg [ 78.71 KiB | Viewed 24562 times ]
DongTaijiangborderw.jpg
DongTaijiangborderw.jpg [ 70.54 KiB | Viewed 24562 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Pamela and Ann, sorry for the slow response to the above, but I wanted to ask a few more people in Kaili and the Chong Xing area about embroidered Gejia baby blankets before sticking my head out too far. I visited Gejia land in July and asked everyone I could on the subject. Those that knew the Kaili textile market simply smiled and said “jiade” fake! The others said they thought such a thing was probably fake, as they had never seen or heard of one. This does not mean that they have never been made, as every society has its mavericks.

I would like to make a few observations regarding Ann’s piece based on my own experience:
a) The embroidery does not include any chain stitch. Most (all, in my experience) Gejia embroidery of this style would have chain stitch around certain of the motifs present on Ann’s piece (see attached photographs).
b) This style of Gejia embroidery would normally include some purple dye. I know that the conservator wrote that purple was present, but the bright aniline purple that is generally found on this style of Gejia embroidery appears to be quite difficult to wash clean away. My older pieces that show significant fading, the purple tends to be the one colour that stands out the brightest (see attached photos).
c) Older embroidery was not usually made on a blue/grey base cloth, but on a dark indigo tending towards black (made by adding red to the indigo dye).
d) If the piece had lost so much of its colour due to use, washing and fading, then I would expect to see some wear and tear evident in the embroidery threads, which I can’t see from Ann’s photographs.
e) Embroidery of this style generally has certain motifs made up of 2 differently coloured areas of plain stitch that interlock where they meet (see attached photos). On Ann’s detailed photos, some of these motifs are made using 3 lines of plain stitch that do not seem to interlock in the same way.

Certainly not conclusive. I would just like to add that the Chinese really are exceptionally good at deception, being able to produce genuine modern-day antiques bronzes, jades, teapots, Ming porcelain and even Tibetan Monasteries. For me, it isn’t difficult to believe that the good women of Guizhou are capable of producing old looking textiles, especially as I have one or three in my collection! I am aware that over the last 2 years, even veteran Gejia dealers in Kaili are finding themselves on the “cheated” end of the textile trade.

I was told an interesting story whilst in Kaili in July. A Huangping Miao dealer, who had arranged for women in the countryside to embroider Gejia baby carriers for her, asked a Gejia dealer friend to comment on a couple of newly delivered carriers. My friend was surprised at how good they were, using traditional patterns and correctly coloured silk threads. She asked whether the dealer was intending to sell these pieces at lower prices to reflect their lack of age or at a high price. The dealer said that of course she would sell them at a high price. My friend commented that they were new and should not be sold as genuine old Gejia pieces. The dealer replied that if she kept them for a few years, they would become genuine!!

That’s China! If a fifth of the world’s population tells you something is genuine, it is easy to see how “fakes” become accepted as genuine articles. It is quite possible that in a few years time, Kaili will have several genuine Gejia phoenix baby carriers similar to the one I posted earlier in this thread.


Attachments:
File comment: chain stitch around certain motifs
Chain-stitch-Gejia-sleeve-1b.jpg
Chain-stitch-Gejia-sleeve-1b.jpg [ 81.45 KiB | Viewed 23400 times ]
File comment: chain stitch around certain motifs
Chain-stitch-Gejia-baby-carrier-22n.jpg
Chain-stitch-Gejia-baby-carrier-22n.jpg [ 67.79 KiB | Viewed 23400 times ]
Ann's Gejia blanket.jpg
Ann's Gejia blanket.jpg [ 85.68 KiB | Viewed 23400 times ]
File comment: long-lasting purple dye on faded carrier
purple dye-Gejia baby carrier.jpg
purple dye-Gejia baby carrier.jpg [ 75.35 KiB | Viewed 23400 times ]
File comment: long-lasting purple dye on faded carrier
Purple dye-Gejia-baby-carrier-20b.jpg
Purple dye-Gejia-baby-carrier-20b.jpg [ 71.47 KiB | Viewed 23400 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:17 pm 
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more photos


Attachments:
File comment: wear on old faded embroidery
Wear-on-Gejia-baby-carrier.jpg
Wear-on-Gejia-baby-carrier.jpg [ 73.58 KiB | Viewed 23394 times ]
File comment: wear on faded embroidery
Wear on Gejia-baby-carrier-14.jpg
Wear on Gejia-baby-carrier-14.jpg [ 73.71 KiB | Viewed 23394 times ]
File comment: interlocking threads of different coloured embroidery
Gejia-baby-carrier-26.jpg
Gejia-baby-carrier-26.jpg [ 77.79 KiB | Viewed 23394 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:08 am 
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I have just returned to Taiwan from a quick 7 day trip to Kaili where I spent some time trying and nail down a few more pieces of information about Gejia textiles. Whilst there, a Gejia friend told me she had come across a machine embroidered Gejia baby carrier that looked very similar to one I’d asked her about some years ago, so she bought it at great expense to show me.

As you can see from the photos below, the basic design of this baby carrier is almost identical to the phoenix baby carrier I posted earlier on this thread. Admittedly it is not trying to pass itself off as an old hand embroidered carrier, but in future such items could be hand made using natural dyes and sold as 100 year old pieces. In the very last sentence I wrote on 26 October 2010, I said “It is quite possible that in a few years time, Kaili will have several ‘genuine’ phoenix baby carriers similar to the one I posted earlier in this thread.” And so here we are, phoenix baby carriers by the bucket load.

To all would be collectors of Chinese textiles, if you expect to find old pieces in Kaili or even in the countryside, be very cautious, as in my opinion you are more likely to find genuine old items in the USA or Europe than you are in China. A small private museum opened in Kaili this year, both of the old embroidered Gejia skirts they had on show together with a majia and an embroidered apron were certainly fake, at which point I gave up looking at the Gejia pieces and moved on to enjoy some genuinely good items from other minority groups.


Attachments:
File comment: Machine made Gejia baby carrier
Gejia-machine-made-baby-carrier 1c.jpg
Gejia-machine-made-baby-carrier 1c.jpg [ 126.08 KiB | Viewed 18612 times ]
File comment: Detail
Gejia-machine-made-baby-carrier 2c.jpg
Gejia-machine-made-baby-carrier 2c.jpg [ 149.04 KiB | Viewed 18612 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:48 pm 
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Andrew

Gosh!!! Very interesting indeed! Of course, these days with computerised sewing machines it is so easy to get them to copy patterns and then put them together and to repeat them! A good control of the machine. There has been no attempt to hand darn in the ends where the needle moves to a new pattern. You can clearly see the white threads crossing from motif to motif. Something to look out for when looking at a textile to check the technique. In one sense this machine-embroidered baby carrier is a perfectly logical way to move on - as long as there is no attempt to pass it off as hand-embroidered!

I enjoyed looking back through the thread. It was a nicely varied one with interesting tangential highlights! Many thanks for bringing it back to my attention! I always enjoy old threads being added to much later on - in this case over 5 years later! This is one of the real strengths of the forum :)

Many thanks for sharing with us!

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